Re: The Corporation for Public Software/Natianal Endowment for the Bits

[Mark Hinds <zoro@blarg.net>]

  franklin@ideas4you.com wrote:
  
  I read my reply and it's a bit cranky so I will apologize in advance.
  I do not have time to re-write for greater user friendliness.
  
  > Excuse me here, but even PBS has Donation Colections Marathons.
  
  I'm one of those dopes who sends them money.
  
  > May I ask, who is NSF and are they government funded.
  
  National Science Foundation. Yes.
  
  >
  >
  > >Anyone else think this is the greatest thing idea they've ever heard? If
  > >so, perhaps one of the more verbally inclined among us could draft
  > >something to pursuade congress that this is a great idea.
  
  > If it was government funded then it would really be free would it.  The
  > tax paying citizens of this country would be paying for,
  
  Nothing is free, it would just be the best value for YOUR money.
  
  >
  
  > YOU A LINUX USER,
  > to have FREE software that wasn't available for any other OS.
  
  Exuse me, but GNU software is available for MAC,OS2,DOS,NT
  and a number of UNIX platforms.
  
  > I'm sorry,
  > BUT HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND.
  
  Well, perhaps at least I have one to lose.
  
  > I don't use any UNIX flavor on my system and
  > I don't have plans on it anytime soon.  Like maybe 10 years down the road.
  
  Despite the BS that MS comes up with regarding the definition of OS's,the OS
  is more or less transparent to the user. Unless we're talking MS OS's
  which can be detected by blue screens and other manifestations of their
  poor reliablity
  
  > What makes you think that people in this country would want to pay for you
  > to have free software,
  
  My brain, they also seem to have benn stupid enough to make Billy G richso I
  ceratinly think I deserve it too. You question is so stupid that I am
  responding in the only reasonable way.
  
  > Linux has a very small market share of the
  > computers out there, granted it growing, but it's growing from the UNIX
  > users out there that maybe tired of having to pay for thier OS.
  
  There are 4-6 million linux users world wide. How many OS2's?
  
  > At least if something goes wrong with this system and if I can prove that
  > the OS
  > was at fault,  I've got someone that I can go and grip at about it.
  
  Are kidding me? Do you know what you're talking about?
  Call MS, IBM, Apple, Sun, any of them.
  You'll be on the phone for at least 30 minutes and you will learn that They
  never heard of that problem before. They will NOT fix it over the phone,
  and they will possibley never fix in any future release. THIS IS REALITY.
  
  >  And if they don't get it fixed,  I could sue them to get it fixed.
  
  Dream on. You will have signed, opened, or looked at enoughdisclaimers that
  you are lucky if it does anything. You have ZERO
  legal recourse to get proplems solved with comercial software.
  
  I have heard this lame arguement so many times, always from people
  who have never actually tried to get service from a SW vendor.
  
  >  Wake up, every time the government funds something it is taking money out
  > of the
  > pockets of it citizens,  something they do very well with out help from the
  > out side.
  
  I'm sorry, I think that the goverment does a fair job with the money they
  get.
  I'd certainly rather send my money to the government than MS, and whereas
  I'd have to send 10 billion dollars a year to get the crap that they deliver
  plus
  their arrogant dominance of an industry that they are only a small part of, I
  
  could send say 100 million a year to the NEB (Natianal Endowment for the
  Bits)
  and get something that worked.
  
  > >Note, I'm
  > >talking Linux here folks, I've got nothing against users of the various
  > >comercially available OS's, but there are a couple of things I've learned
  > >over the years:
  >
  > Excuse me again, but I happen to use OS/2 Warp 4.0 FP 5. If this was being
  > done for all operating systems(DOS/WIN3.1,WIN 95,NT,OS/2,Unix flavors)
  > then I would agree with you.
  
  Excuse me, but I am not proposing sending money to corps so that theycan keep
  their BS intellectual property and then charge us for the priveldge
  of using it. Sure if IBM, Apple, or who ever want to make their OS's public
  domain then great.
  
  > But for one single OS, an a UNIXish one at that, don't get me wrong, but
  > most people just do not know enough about computers to use any form of
  > UNIX.  Don't get me wrong,
  
  Well I guess I got you wrong. No, anyone that can use Win95 can use use a
  Win95-like
  desktop on any under lying OS, likewise OS/2 and MAC. There are plenty of
  people
  who would love to develop Such clones. You really don't understand here do
  you?
  I'm not proposing that everyone uses the same user interface that I do. Crap
  are
  you so stupid that you don't know the difference. I am utterly sick of this
  ignorance.
  This is exactly what these Corps prey on!
  
  Given that Linux is FREE it would make the the ideal Underlying OS, the thing
  which
  you don't seem to have ever talked to. Your apps could be run there and you
  wouldn't
  know the difference, (Except they'd probably run faster)
  
  >  I do programming for the web in a FreeBSD environment.  I mean I write the
  > actual code onmy OS/2 system, FTP it to the site, and run it via a Telnet
  > session or my Web browser depending on wether what I wrote had a problem.
  
  Cool. I write my scripts right here in linux land then talk to them on the
  same  machine'shttp server (apache- public domain) avoiding the the ftp step
  during development. I then
  ftp finished products to the real server and check them out once for proper
  installation.
  If you like the sound of this I will help you get setup (FREE!!!)
  
  > I'm very much for free software and free OSes,  but what the computer
  > industry
  > really needs is a free windows operating system.
  
  No, it needs SW providers that it can trust. You obviously don't trust meand
  think I'm just another jerk trying force something down your throat.
  I'm not. I'm trying to find a way to offer the public -YOU- a way to
  ghet control over an industry that's out of control.
  
  The interface to which you refer is a Desktop/Window manager. IT IS NOT
  A BLINKEN OS!!!!! There are quite a few for Linux, try one sometime then
  prehaps you will know more about what you are talking. As for me, I have used
  MAC, Windows, OS2 and Sun/Motif, and Xfree/Fvwm, I'd say they are all pretty
  much variations
  on the same theme. That's the whole point of GUI's, they are supposed to be
  EASY to
  use.
  
  >  Something that is easy
  > to install and """"take care of"""""", at least for the masses.  I for
  > one, never what to leave OS/2,  that's why I support java, but in all
  > honesty if I do end up leaving OS/2 it will propably be for NT unless
  > someone can prove to me that Linux, FreeBSD or some other free UNIX will be
  > easy to install and take care of with out a lot of hassles.
  
  So you'd rather use MS than take the time to educate yourself. I'm sorry
  that'sjust not how it works. If you want learn you'll have to take the time
  yourself,
  or stop complaining about MS. I have installed linux, WinNT, Win95, OS/2.
  The ease of installation is represented by the above order.
  
  Never trust software.
  
  > >1. Never trust software
  
  > >2. If you must trust software, only trust software for which you
  > >   have the source.
  >
  > Trust has nothing to do with it.  The only software I don't trust is
  > software made by MS,  I will probably not even upgrade to the next version
  > of OS/2 just because IBM has gotten a little like MS, at least in thier
  > information gather crap, so I'm less likely to trust the next IBM OS.  But
  > then again I may have to because I may not be able to get NS
  > Communicator/s if I don't.
  
  Trsut has everything to do with it. I do right software and I know thatno
  matter how hard you try it will have problems. I also know that if
  you call the vendor you will get ZERO assistance with real bugs. If you
  post to the news groups you'll usually get a response and a patch that will
  fix
  it. I know that if you have the source you can actually see what the hell
  the app is up to, or at least someone can.
  
  > Wake-up call here,  most people do not know how to program. Oh sure you
  > could teach the how to compile thier software,  but if something goes
  > wrong and it won't compile,  out the window it would go, at least for most
  > users.
  
  Excuse me. What the hell are you blathering about. Here's the model.
  HW <-> OS <-> APP. I said that we need public domain apps to replace the
  comercial one's. DO YOU GET IT? Perhaps spending more time thinking about
  what is written rather than knee-jerk blasting it is in order.
  
  Do you want control over your computing environment? I'm trying to
  find a way to offer it, not take it away.
  
  Linux is an OS. It talks to harware and to APPS. Unless you write programs
  you wouldn't know it was there (except it doesn't crash and goes faster).
  
  
  
  A large part of me says, OK screw stupid people, that's what evolution is
  for. But I know that I will get dragged along by the will of the masses
  unless
  I get them on to a reasonable path, so I will continue beating my head on the
  
  wall, but I'm really getting tired of it.
  
  Mark Hinds