[Upd-discuss] !@!Public Domain & Eminent Domain

[Jean-Baptiste Soufron]

>    You lay-out many solid points, and I very much agree it is a =20
> trap to think in terms of what has evolved to suite the exact =20
> social environment we currently have.. People are quite ingenious =20
> and will find a way to further any system they are given..

I think that could be a very important point.

To sum it up, it would mean that copyright and other IC law were =20
originally designed as a censorship tool for political means. It's =20
only in a second time that authors and creators found a way to use =20
that censorship tool in order to get money an incentives, by building =20=

on the economy of scarcity that it helped creating.

>
> Cheers!
> -s=E1ndor
>
>
> P.S.
> Having thought about it a bit - I would question whether the two =20
> functions you present are likely under a non-capitalist regime.. If =20=

> capitalism requires intellectual control to make use of conceptual =20
> items - then certainly the capitalist system has a predilection for =20=

> imposing control where none is otherwise needed..
>
> Control is not limited to capitalism, but neither can it be removed =20=

> from it..

I would answer that the only legitimate control that can be is the =20
control of the value of things, rather than the control of things : =20
that is, the right to profit from the value of your things, not the =20
right to control them.

That is very 19th liberal economy (like Bastiat or Walras for example).

> This particular system is intrinsically hostile to the public =20
> domain.. It seems sensible that any system with the requisite of =20
> ownership will be the same.. I am not sure of any functional modern =20=

> social systems that do not have this component, but I am quite =20
> certain someone more clever than myself has devised one :)
>
>
> Jean-Baptiste Soufron wrote:
>
>
>> I really think you're on a wrong debate because the use of  =20
>> Intellectual Control has nothing to do with capitalism or other =20
>> means  to organize the economical life of citizens.
>>
>> First, as Michael explained it quite often, Intellectual Control =20
>> is a  tool to achieve policital means. Second, as Lawrence Lessig =20
>> and  others highlighted it, Intellectual Control can also be given =20=

>> by  political agents to creative agents as an economical incentive =20=

>> for  Intellectual creation.
>>
>> But these 2 functions can very well be put in motion, whether the  =20=

>> economical environment is capitalist or not.
>>
>> Thus, we must not restrein ourselves to the rethorics of our =20
>> enemies.  We must not talk about the economical reality of =20
>> Intellectual  Property. But we must rather remember that the =20
>> economical effect of  Intellectual Control is only a matter of =20
>> politics.
>>
>> The economical role of Intellectual Property could very well be  =20
>> achieved through other means. It only exists because politic =20
>> agents  one day decided to delegate their censorship power to the =20
>> people they  identified as authors, thus creating an economy of =20
>> scarcity that may  well have been a good incentive for creation at =20=

>> a time... but which  is not justified as of today.
>>
>> That's why, I don't think we should lose ourselves in economical  =20
>> debates about Intellectual Property : Intellectual Control is a  =20
>> political theft of the freedom of consciousness that has only =20
>> been  artificially delegated to "authors".
>>
>> Le 26 juil. 05 =E0 11:28, Rob Myers a =E9crit :
>>
>>
>>> On 25 Jul 2005, at 18:48, sandor wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>    All things public-domain are incompatible with capitalism.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> But surely not in the sense that capitalism cannot make use of  =20
>>> them. That is, capitalism can make use of the public domain =20
>>> quite  easily, and then deny the results of that usage to the =20
>>> public  domain. In this way, the public domain is more compatible =20=

>>> with  capitalism than private property is, as private property =20
>>> must be  paid for, reducing profit.
>>>
>>> - Rob.
>>>
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>>
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