[Dioxin-l] Nature and halogens

[Ronald Shore]

I agree.  Nature certainly does not warrant alchemy.

But nature does provide for the generation of complex molecules from simple 
ones (primitive, simple molecules to amino acids to proteins to us for a 
grandiose example).

It is known that the combustion of very simple halogen-containing substances 
generate the thermodynamically favored PAH, dioxins, and the like.  It also 
is recognized that mineral surfaces accumulate small organic molecules and 
generate complex carbonaceous films.

All of this is of course not directly related to the problem of the 
hazardous wastes generated in waste treatment.  We agree that that problem 
is appalling.  The purpose of my earlier note about naturally occurring 
halogened materials was just to provide some balance to comments over the 
past month leaning toward the view that all choroorganics were bad.

RS


>From: "G. De Mey" <g.de.mey@pandora.be>
>Reply-To: g.de.mey@pandora.be
>To: Ronald Shore <ronaldshore@hotmail.com>
>CC: dioxin-l@lists.essential.org
>Subject: Re: [Dioxin-l] Nature and halogens
>Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:01:44 +0100
>
>For whom the bell tolls
>
>Ronald Shore takes a leap from CH3Br and CH3Cl and VHOC (volatile 
>halogenated
>organic compounds) to dioxin. Nature does not warrant alchemy.
>
>GDM
>
>Ronald Shore schreef:
>
> > Some time back there was some discussion of naturally occurring
> > halogen-containing organic compounds, and then the topic seemed to fade
> > away.
> >
> > I may have missed mention of it, so excuse any duplication.  But there 
>is a
> > paper in Nature (v.403, p. 292) describing coastal salt marshes as
> > significant sources of methyl chloride and bromide.  This account adds
> > support to the view by some of those who have contributed to the list 
>(but
> > seem to have been shouted down) that naturally occurring haloorganic
> > materials are not absent in our environment, but rather have been 
>present
> > for a long time.  It is too the case that through naturally occurring 
>high
> > energy events (eg volcanoes, fires, lightning) and other chemistry
> > (atmospheric oxidants, mineral surfaces) they can be converted to a 
>range of
> > other substances, most of them benign, but some long lasting and toxic.
> >
> > Now it is clear that dioxins and related materials are toxic, and that 
>they
> > are produced through the combustion of waste.  Accordingly suitable 
>waste
> > treatments must be developed, and treatments must be overseen by the 
>proper
> > bodies.
> >
> > But it must be recognized that nature produced these materials long 
>before
> > we did, and always will.  The elimination of chloroorganics forever, as 
>some
> > have suggested, seems to be an extreme and probably futile route to 
>take.
> >
> > (I have absolutely no connection to any organization dealing with 
>halogens
> > or waste treatment.)
> >
> > RS
> >
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