[Dioxin-l] [Dioxin] Open List?

[david bell]

>David,
>
>You've got to help me here. What lake(s)? The Great Lakes? The lake in
>Central Park? You are assuming that deposition in the late 19th century is
>from natural sources. It's my understanding that foundries/smelters etc. 
>are
>now recognized as possible sources of air borne dioxin during that period.
>The only unexplaned dioxin deposits that I know of have been in clay 
>deposits(deep?)

I did quote my source, so you could have looked. You can also look at :
http://www.epa.gov/ncea/pdfs/sedcore.pdf
which looks at historical data from 11 lakes throughout the US from the 
1700s onwards. Also, there is a study of dioxins in various foods available 
at:
http://www.epa.gov/ncea/docs/histmdw.wpd
or
http://www.epa.gov/ncea/pdfs/histmdw.pdf

I would like to see your reference about the clay and dioxin.


>Where did you hear about falling dioxin levels? What consensus? Dioxin 
>levels
>in what? In the air? In B&J's ice cream? Have you seen the posting on
>backyard burn barrels? have you had any of the new pentachlorophenol 
>treated
>utility poles installed in your neighborhood lately? Penta is loaded with
>dioxin and is becoming the pole treatment of choice (over creosote).

The references above find that dioxin TEQs now are lower than they were in 
the 60's/ 70's.

What you have given above is a lot of examples that dioxin is there; well, 
that's a start. But they are not comparisons showing that the level of 
dioxins are rising.

In a way, that is quite important. If you were able to show that dioxin 
levels were rising by access to decent data, then it is a very important 
thing to know; something that would inform your view of what action was 
necessary. I don't know the literature here particularly well, so I would be 
very interested to hear what is out there.

>What are you trying to tell us about DDT? You admit that it is a known
>problem, and it deserves "effort", then you tell us that it saves lives in
>third world countries.  Which is it going to be? Perhaps we humans have
>learned nothing from one of our  earliest environmental mistakes.  We have
>created a super race of DDT resistant mosquitos which proliferate in human
>created habitats like tires, containers and stagant water in natural 
>drainage
>systems screwed up by harebrained development schemes. People use spent DDT
>containers for everything. A favorite use of DDT is to spray the interior
>walls of homes because it kills mosquitos (some) on contact for many months
>afterwards. That, to me is a reckless threat to public health with no long
>term effect on the mosquito population.

That's easy for you to say; I guess that you are not in much danger from 
dying from malaria. I think there are lots of extremely poor people with no 
medical cover in the third world who suffer terribly from malaria; they 
might have a different view.


>I'm sorry. I don't think organo halogens have proven to be that >useful.

Have you got a fridge ? a freezer ? Do you buy your food in the supermarket, 
which uses HCFCs in their fridges and freezers ? Have you ever had to rely 
on hospital supplies which need refrigeration ?
Have you ever had any medication ? (maybe half are organohalogens)
Have you ever had a general anaesthetic (all organohalogens) ?
Got a pacemaker ?
Ever used plastics ? so many use organochlorines either as a constituent, or 
to dissolve the starting chemicals. If you have a car, you can bet you have.

>Just
>because our society uses them does not mean that they are really necessary.
>Does our society need all of the disposable vinyl crap that it throws away
>and burns in incinerators? Vinyl siding is the rage now. In 20-25 years it
>will be getting torn off of the millions of homes upon which it was 
>installed
>because it disintegrates from UV exposure. Then what? our stupid wasteful
>society doesn't need all of the absurd rubbish that it consumes to maintain
>its fabric. It just thinks it does because that is what it is told by
>propagandists. Checked out the latest Pokemon?

How does society stop all the stupid crap ? good question- what is your 
answer ? would you ban Pokemon ?

I share your concerns- and maybe I would like to ban Pokemon- but I don't 
know it's so easy, nor that banning organochlorines helps.

cheers
david




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