[Dioxin-l] Open List?

[Alan Muller]

At 04:25 PM 1/3/00 -0800, David Ross wrote:

>First, for the record I am not an industrialist.  I have worked in
>incineration alternatives, and I am fully desirous of a cleaner and
>more healthful environment, just like all others on the list.  And I
>know a bit about chemistry, combustion, and waste disposal.


I used to work in industry, and was involved in the designing and marketing of incinerators.  At that time, and from that perspective, I simply had no idea about the questions and concerns that exist from a community /health/environmental perspective.  (The industrial perspective being mainly limited to "compliance," and to lobbying to weaken the regulatory system.)


>My take on the more strident list members recognizes that they have
>some very strongly felt views.  


Right now, an incinerator company has hired a lobbyist (who also works for the American Cancer Society...) who is going around in Delaware giving money to politicians and telling them and others than his incinerator would actually clean up the air.......  This is a bit irritating.

>But can they be open minded to
>suggestions that those views might not be fully correct?   Thus from
>Mr Everston in response to comments by D Bell and me about naturally
>occurring organohalogens, “. . imply that organo-halogens are found
>wide spread in nature when they are not. They may exist but to say
>they are wide spread and a necessary part of life systems is
>extreme.”  
>
>I must tell you that Everston’s statement is simply not true.  I
>repeat:  it is just not true. There is at least one detailed review
>article in a respected journal -- having nothing to with industry,
>toxics, or waste -- that describes this interesting class of
>compounds, that is wide spread.  

I am not unwilling to believe this, but the actual citation would be more convincing that a description of it.


>I would guess that most of the list members would agree that the
>automatic mistrust of any comments reflecting some possible academic
>or technical background that we see in some postings has no place in
>the list.  

This reaction comes from the reality that the overwhelming number of people with "academic or technical background" are in the pay of "industry" and act accordingly.



>Unfortunately Jon Campbell’s educative activities are mirrored in
>statements like, “Incineration is in essence a hoax, a trick by the
>incinerator industry to buy their machines and technology, or at best
>an ill-conceived attempt at recycling of the energy of waste which
>played into the hands of the incinerator industry. Everything that is
>wrong with landfills is doubly wrong with incinerators: instead of
>dumping garbage into a hole, incinerators produce intensely toxic
>waste that you must then dump into a hole, and putting the rest of
>the toxic waste into the air. Most of the energy inherent in the
>waste, which could be recaptured by simple reuse and recycling, is
>lost.”  


I don't know personally whether Jon wrote this, but it is essentially true, if strongly put.


>So how about it  --  might we develop a genuine forum for an honest
>exchange of ideas?  In the name of a straightforward and constructive
>discourse, might there be some way people like David and myself could
>offer comments that, while not in line with the beliefs of other list
>members, would be accepted as genuine points of view with no
>malevolent or hidden agenda, and possibly with some substance?  


This is a bit sweeping.  How about telling us about your own background, and how you earn your living, and what your agenda is?   Are you billing anyone for you time for this?


>Is there not room on the list for candid and open discussion with no
>hysteria, and would we not all benefit from some mechanism where that
>kind of interaction could take place?
>
>Any thoughts about how it might be done?

Perhaps you should consider setting it your own list?

Alan Muller


Alan Muller, Executive Director
Green Delaware
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