[Am-info] Re: misc dishonesty disengenuity

[Glenn T. Livezey, Ph.D.]

Ah, where do I begin....

>>To: Mike Stephen <mikestp@telus.net> who wrote
>>I agree not all corporations are greedy and dishonest. I was 
>>referring more the the country called the United States. In my 
>>opinion the USA government acts in a  greedy and dishonest manner. 
>>Similar in manner to the way Microsoft acts.

>Geoffrey <esoteric@3times25.net> replied
>Sour grapes.

What knee-jerk, patronizing, hypocritical hogwash.

>While John Poltorak's <jp@eyup.org> opinion was
>It seems to me that the Bush administration realised that retaining 
>the Microsoft global monoply was in itself in America's best 
>interests, that's why they gave up the Antitrust case.

Which is partially logically correct, in so far as assigning motives,
except for the true definition of "America's" best interest. For this 
statement would seem to follow the cynical and mercenary religious
tenants of the Capitalistic Church currently well represented in the
administration. For them, there is no America except the GDP, the M2
and the Market. And certainly the law of the land cannot get in the 
way of profit.   

>"Mike Stephen" <mikestp@telus.net> responded to "sour grapes" with
>Hmmm the same responce to people who dislike Microsofts market
>position.... Some people say Microsofts actions and the dislike of 
>many who would hope to have the playing field leveled, as sour grapes.
>If you assume it is sour grapes I am thinking of, could you elucidate 
>further? You must know something I am not aware of.

>To which Geoffrey <esoteric@3times25.net> replied
>The point is that your hatred for the United States comes through so
>clearly that your position regarding the issue is completely over 
>shadowed.

Only to you and the current shadowy government. I see no hatred for
our country or our people in his statements, only your hatred for 
anything/anyone that doesn't consider power and profit sacrosanct.

>"Mike Stephen" <mikestp@telus.net> was kinder and gentler in his reply
>Thats silly. I do not hate Microsoft, I do not hate the USA. I 
>disagree with both of the above with respect to the decisions they 
>make. If you relate anyones dislike for poor choices as hatred, then 
>you obviously have some problems you should take care of.

Agreed.
 
>The USA has screwed the worlds food production with hundreds of 
>billions of dollars in subsidies thrown at the food production 
>industry. This has huge repercussions in the world's food supplies.
>The USA has screwed Western Canadas softwood lumber industry with 
>unfair taxes and duties....

Notice how "steel" and "steal" even sound alike? ;-)

>the while the USA is saying they want freetrade and to play fair, 
>while they stab any competition in the back. Can you dispute this?  
>I do not hate the USA or Americans, or even you.... Even if sometimes 
>people seem to act as if education was not important (perhaps like 
>George W Bush they hope a C average is ok to become president)...

or health care, or housing, or ... anything they can't own a majority
share of.

>But to label any dissent as hatered goes beyond the pale.... I guess 
>if you disagree with the US government they will label you as a 
>terrorist, and if you disagree with Microsoft, the same?

...you still ranting about the NSA's backdoor in windoze, we've got a
cozy little detention cell with your name on it...

>And from: "John J. Urbaniak" <jjurban@attglobal.net> we heard
>Oh, please. The US is the most generous nation on earth. John

Oh please, indeed. 
Generous to whom, and at what price? Every penny of foreign aid is
constructed to produce a windfall profit for some savvy contributor.
The American people may well be the most generous people on earth,
and the American economy by virtue (certainly a misplaced word) of
its sheer size may be the vehicle for the largest monetary assistance
to the world at large, but the powers that be always seem to treat
that generosity as one more natural resource to exploit for profit.
Globalization to date is an exercise in exploiting our nation's 
virtues to the benefit of our leaders in vice. How else do you explain
the huge moneys diverted to oppose any protection of workers rights,
the environment and the autonomy of the countries that are the focus 
of this "generosity" in economic development?

We in these United States have much to be proud of, but not the
expanding powers of the Bush administration and corporate america's
capacity to shred treaties at will to allow for record defense 
contracts to launch the endless weapons program as part of the 
endless war against the evil axis of the month.

Or,
>As "Mike Stephen" <mikestp@telus.net> put it,
>Oh please....  In exactly the same way that Bill Gates is the most 
>generous person on the globe. After all he gave away hundreds of 
>millions. In the same way he has illegally maintained his companies 
>profits, so has America maintained its dominant position with threats
>and wielding "large baseball bats" when negotiating with others.
>Please....  you cannot possibly be so blind.....

Ah but there are none so blind as they that will not see...
 
>And more from: Geoffrey <esoteric@3times25.net>
>Reread my posting, I didn't say you hated Microsoft.
>>and in re:..........................  But to label any dissent
>>as hatered goes beyond the pale....  I guess if you disagree
>>with the US government they will label you as a terrorist, and
>> if you disagree with Microsoft, the same?
>Like I said...

You said a lot of things, but this is not an answer.

>And further along Geoffrey <esoteric@3times25.net> wrote
>Like I said.... Your bias is so obvious, in everything you post. This
>is the problem. Same with OS/2, your bias get's in the way of your
>validity.

Ah, now I understand. By 'bias' you mean his reliance on knowledge,
truth and experience. This is 'bias' like any Democrat's concern with
civil liberties is 'partisanship'. Like the 'bias' the past judges 
have shown against Microsoft presenting fabricated 'evidence' in court,
ignoring every injunction against illegal practices and declaring that
night is day when Bill Gate's says it is. Not to speak for others, but 
I share the same 'bias' against liars and thieves, and my 'bias' is
even greater against those liars and thieves who have no practical
need to lie and steal for survival, only to augment their already
obscene wealth. 
This 'bias' is also sometimes called truth, honesty and even wisdom.


>From: Sujal Shah <sujal@sujal.net> we have
>This is so very OT.
>However, Geoffrey and John, do you claim that what he's saying isn't
>true (About the U.S.)?Or that it's irrelevant to the point he's making
>Re: Microsoft?
>Because what he's saying about our country is true (it's also true of
>any hegemon at any period in history... you can debate whether it's
>right or not that we, the U.S., do this all you want, but it's true).
>I'm an American, and I have a strong faith in the foundations of this
>country and the general goodness of it's people.  I'm also under no
>delusions about this country's shortcomings, as well.  Power and
>extraordinary amounts of money corrupt and corrupt absolutely.
>There is a great "pop history" book called Lies My Teacher Told Me, by
>James Loewen.  One of my favorite books.  It basically started as a
>study of the accuracy of American high school history texts (all but 
>one did extremely poorly).The book goes through a couple of periods of
>American history and discusses the parts that weren't included in your
>history classes. His point isn't that America is bad (and I disagree
>with Mike on this, obviously) but that by disavowing our true history,
>we force ourselves into repeating the problems we've created in the
>past.
>I'd also point out to you that we have a spotty track record overseas.
>For more corroboration, see Chile
(http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/ihr/hrcomments/1998/oct28-98.html), 
>Iran (http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html),
>the Phillipines, Honduras, Nicaragua, I could keep going.  For every
>WWII act of nobility/economic necessity, we have a number of shady
>things we've done in support of large domestic industries.
>I'll shut up with one more quote:
>"I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped
>make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to
>collect revenue in. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international
>banking house of Brown Brothers. . . . I brought light to the Dominican
>Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras
>'right' for American fruit companies in 1903. Looking back on it, I
>might have given Al Capone a few hints."
>-- Marine Corps General Smedley D. Butler, quoted from Lies My Teacher
>Told Me
>We live in a good country, and one of the best places to live in the
>world.  We still attract some of the best and brightest from around the
>world.  But we also have flaws, and some of them are scary. Sujal

Hear, here.

-- 
Glenn T. Livezey, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
Neuroscience Department
Room 6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church St. S.E.
Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 624-2991 FAX 6-5009 
glivezey@lenti.med.umn.edu
livezey@bigfoot.com

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