[A2k] Users' rights

Sun Jun 28 17:19:01 2009

One advantage of using the term "users' rights" is that it has been
legally recognized.  The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that
exceptions and limitations in copyright should be viewed as users'
rights that must be balanced against creators' rights.  That same
language was picked up by the Copyright Board of Canada yesterday in
the decision that Manon distributed.

MG

On 27-Jun-09, at 12:48 PM, Janice Pilch wrote:

> Dear Alan,
>
> My comment was purely subjective, not intended to create a
> controversy. If most people sense that the term works, that's a good
> thing.
>
> However I do think it makes a difference when you put an adjective
> in front of the word. The terms "library user" and "computer user"
> to me come out as neutral, because there is no room for the
> colloquial meaning. When the word is used alone, I think the
> colloqiual definition lurks.
>
> This does not have to be a huge issue. My only thought was not to
> give rightholders something to use against us, so to speak, in this
> case a secondary meaning.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Janice
>
>
> ---- Original message ----
>> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:16:46 +0100
>> From: "A.C.Story" <A.C.Story@kent.ac.uk>
>> Subject: RE: [A2k] Users' rights
>> To: Janice Pilch <pilch@illinois.edu>, James Love <james.love@keionline.=
org
>> >
>> Cc: "a2k@lists.essential.org" <a2k@lists.essential.org>
>>
>> Janice:
>>
>> I am a bit suprised by your message.
>>
>> I don't understand how we can consider that the word "user" has the
>> implication of being what you call "parasitical", that it means
>> they "use other people."  For example, to call someone a "library
>> user" has no implication, at least to me, that this person is a
>> parasite. Or that a "computer user" is somehow "using other people."
>>
>> I am working from the Oxford English Dictionary definition of the
>> word "user"
>> "1. a. One who has or makes use of a thing; one who uses or employs
>> anything."
>>
>> As for your idea that the copyright system is based on the notion
>> of "balance" ....well, we will have to leave the use of this term
>> and its ideological implications for another day. For now, perhaps
>> you might be interested in reading pages 785-793 (International
>> Copyright: An Unbalanced and "Unbalanceable" System ) in my "Burn
>> Berne" article that can be found at:
>>
>> http://www.houstonlawreview.org/archive/downloads/40-3_pdf/storyg3r.pdf
>>
>> Alan Story
>>
>> PS:
>> And this is very much a PS. I agree that the word "user" CAN also
>> be employed in a colloquial way. To quote again from the OED, but
>> very far down in the list of definitions, we find:
>>
>> d. One who manipulates others for personal advantage. colloq.
>> (orig. N. Amer.).
>> 1982 M. ATWOOD Bodily Harm V. 247 He's a politician so he's a user.
>> 1984 E. JONG Parachutes & Kisses xix. 328 He was another Josh Ace
>> (sweet-seeming younger man with the soul of a user). 1988 A. MACRAE
>> Awful Childhoods xi. 129 What a user!.. And he never contributed a
>> thing to the meal.
>>
>> But I am not personally too troubled by this. Many words have more
>> than one meaning and if libraries and computers can have "users",
>> why cannot people who read copyrighted (or non-copyrighted)  books
>> or listen to and/or work with music also be called "users"?
>>
>> Alan Story
>> Senior Lecturer, Intellectual Property Law
>> Kent Law School
>> University of Kent
>> Canterbury Kent
>> United Kingdom      CT2 7NS
>> acs3@kent.ac.uk
>> Phone: +44 (0)1227 823316
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Janice Pilch [pilch@illinois.edu]
>> Sent: 27 June 2009 02:37
>> To: James Love; A.C.Story
>> Cc: a2k@lists.essential.org
>> Subject: Re: [A2k] Users' rights
>>
>> Users=92 rights is the right concept, but I think it=92s slightly off.
>> We call someone a user when they are parasitical, when they use
>> other people. Would something like =93public rights=94 be better?
>> Limitations and exceptions maintaining the longstanding function of
>> copyright law in society should be viewed as public rights,
>> balancing the private rights to information also granted in
>> copyright laws.
>>
>> Janice Pilch
>>
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:31:35 -0400
>>> From: James Love <james.love@keionline.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [A2k] Users' rights
>>> To: "A.C.Story" <A.C.Story@kent.ac.uk>
>>> Cc: "a2k@lists.essential.org" <a2k@lists.essential.org>
>>>
>>> I like users rights.
>>>
>>> For plant varieties protection, there is something called farmers
>>> rights... http://www.farmersrights.org/
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 18:44 +0100, A.C.Story wrote:
>>>> For several years and again in the last few days, this list has
>>>> been debating whether the words ----dare I say them? ----
>>>> =93intellectual property=94 should ever be used and the political
>>>> consequences of doing so. Could I suggest that we should just
>>>> agree to disagree and move on=85.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, there seems to be no thought given at all to the
>>>> consequences of endlessly repeating the words: " copyright
>>>> limitations and exceptions." This phrase is freighted with a
>>>> political/legal meaning, namely that copyright restrictions and
>>>> the monopoly position of copyright owner are the normal and
>>>> natural state of the world. And further, that everything else,
>>>> such as the right to use a copyrighted work, is a mere table-
>>>> scrap or an oddity, that is, an exception to the way the world of
>>>> copyright should work. Is it any surprise then that =93limitations
>>>> and exceptions=94 is the phrase of choice exclusively used by WIPO
>>>> officials and most copyright owners?
>>>>
>>>> Why don=92t we instead use the words =93users=92 rights=94? This phras=
e
>>>> communicates the fact that the rights which users have are rights
>>>> created or granted by the state ---- just as copyright is a state-
>>>> created right, by the way
>>>> ---- and that they are not a favour granted by copyright lords
>>>> for use by us copyright =93peasants.=94
>>>>
>>>> Mind you, I see it as rather beside the point to tirelessly
>>>> challenge every person on this list who uses the phrase
>>>> =93limitations and exceptions=94. It might be productive, however, if
>>>> WIPO spokespersons and other copyright fundamentalists were
>>>> occasionally challenged on their wording of choice and phrase
>>>> =93users=92 rights=94 was employed instead. I saw this done once, and
>>>> boy, did the veils drop away quickly and the real political
>>>> stakes come to the surface.
>>>>
>>>> It is very difficult to take apart the lord=92s copyright manor if
>>>> we keep using the lord=92s words.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Alan Story
>>>>
>>>> Alan Story
>>>> Senior Lecturer, Intellectual Property Law
>>>> Kent Law School
>>>> University of Kent
>>>> Canterbury Kent
>>>> United Kingdom      CT2 7NS
>>>> acs3@kent.ac.uk
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> A2k mailing list
>>>> A2k@lists.essential.org
>>>> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k
>>>
>>> --
>>> James Love, Director, Knowledge Ecology International
>>> http://www.keionline.org | mailto:james.love at keionline.org
>>> Wk: +1.202.332.2671 | US Mobile +1.202.361.3040 | Geneva Mobile
>>> +41.76.413.6584
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> A2k mailing list
>>> A2k@lists.essential.org
>>> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Janice T. Pilch
>> Associate Professor of Library Administration
>> Modern Languages and Linguistics Library
>> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>> 1408 W. Gregory Drive, Urbana, IL 61801
>> Tel (217) 244-9399
>> Fax (217) 333-2214
>> _______________________________________________
>> A2k mailing list
>> A2k@lists.essential.org
>> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k
> ----------------------------------------
> Janice T. Pilch
> Associate Professor of Library Administration
> Modern Languages and Linguistics Library
> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
> 1408 W. Gregory Drive, Urbana, IL 61801
> Tel (217) 244-9399
> Fax (217) 333-2214
> _______________________________________________
> A2k mailing list
> A2k@lists.essential.org
> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k

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