[A2k] From The Times, February 12, 2008 -Internet users could be banned over illegal downloads

[Barbara Stratton]

>From The Times=0D
February 12, 2008=0D
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article33=
53387.ece=0D
=0D
Internet users could be banned over illegal downloads=0D
Francis Eliott, Deputy Political Editor=0D
=0D
People who illegally download films and music will be cut off from the inte=
rnet under new legislative proposals to be unveiled next week.=0D
Internet service providers (ISPs) will be legally required to take action a=
gainst users who access pirated material, The Times has learnt.=0D
=0D
Users suspected of wrongly downloading films or music will receive a warnin=
g e-mail for the first offence, a suspension for the second infringement an=
d the termination of their internet contract if caught a third time, under =
the most likely option to emerge from discussions about the new law.=0D
=0D
Broadband companies who fail to enforce the =E2=80=9Cthree-strikes=E2=80=9D=
 regime would be prosecuted and suspected customers=E2=80=99 details could =
be made available to the courts. The Government has yet to decide if inform=
ation on offenders should be shared between ISPs.=0D
Six million broadband users are estimated to download files illegally every=
 year in this country in a practice that music and film companies claim is =
costing them billions of pounds in lost revenue annually.=0D
=0D
Britain=E2=80=99s four biggest internet providers =E2=80=93 BT, Tiscali, Or=
ange and Virgin Media =E2=80=93 have been in talks with Hollywood=E2=80=99s=
 biggest studio and distribution companies for six months over a voluntary =
scheme.=0D
=0D
Parallel negotiations between Britain=E2=80=99s music industry and individu=
al internet providers have been dragging on for two years.=0D
=0D
Major sticking points include who will arbitrate disputed allegations, for =
example when customers claim to have been the victim of =E2=80=9Cwi-fi pigg=
ybacking=E2=80=9D, in which users link up to a paid-for wireless network th=
at is not their own. Another outstanding disagreement is how many enforceme=
nts the internet companies will be expected to initiate and how quickly war=
ning e-mails would be sent.=0D
=0D
International action in the US and France, which is implementing its own =
=E2=80=9Cthree-strikes=E2=80=9D regime, has increased the pressure on Briti=
sh internet companies and stiffened the Government=E2=80=99s resolve.=0D
Ministers will make an explicit commitment to legislate with the launch nex=
t week of a Green Paper on the creative industries. A draft copy, obtained =
by The Times, states: =E2=80=9CWe will move to legislate to require interne=
t service providers to take action on illegal file-sharing.=E2=80=9D A cons=
ultation paper setting out the options is promised within months.=0D
=0D
A spokesman for the Internet Service Providers Association said it remained=
 hopeful that agreement over a voluntary agreement could be reached: =E2=80=
=9CEvery right-thinking body knows that self-regulation is much the better =
option in these areas.=E2=80=9D=0D
=0D
Roz Groome, vice-president of antipiracy for NBC Universal, welcomed the pr=
ospect of new laws. =E2=80=9CWe welcome the signal from Government that it =
values the health of the creative industries and takes seriously the damage=
 caused by widespread online copyright infringement. We call upon ISPs to t=
ake action now. They must play their part in the fight against online pirac=
y and work with rights owners to ensure that ISPs=E2=80=99 customers do not=
 use their services for illegal activity. Piracy stifles innovation and thr=
eatens the long term health of our industry.=E2=80=9D=0D
=0D
Ed Vaizey, the Shadow Arts Minister, said: =E2=80=9CDavid Cameron called on=
 the internet providers to address this issue last summer. The credibility =
of the Government=E2=80=99s latest threat is undermined by the fact that mi=
nisters have spent so many years dithering on whether to legislate.=E2=80=
=9D=0D
=0D
The commitment forms part of a Green Paper on the creative industries entit=
led The World=E2=80=99s Creative Hub to be launched by Andy Burnham, the Cu=
lture Secretary, and Gordon Brown next week.=0D
Other high-profile elements include a pledge that children will be entitled=
 to five hours of culture a week overseen by a new youth culture trust. The=
 pledge will give children the right to learn a musical instrument, visit a=
rt galleries and museums and even make films.=0D
=0D
Other pledges include setting up a new international conference modelled on=
 Davos, entitled the World Creative Economy Forum, and supporting a new =C2=
=A3200 million film centre at the South Bank in London. A spokeswoman for t=
he Department for Culture, Media and Sport said: =E2=80=9CEarly drafts of o=
ur creative economy programme document were circulated to stakeholders for =
comment. The content and proposals for the strategy have been significantly=
 developed since then and a comprehensive plan to bolster the UK=E2=80=99s =
creative industries will be published shortly. We will not comment on the c=
ontent of the leaked document.=E2=80=9D=0D
=0D
=0D
=E2=80=A2 HAVE YOUR SAY=0D
If i don't share it I am not breaking any law?? Unless it's being re-writte=
n?? I will glady take this to court if I am penalised. If I see someone com=
mit a crime should I really be punished for it??=0D
Adam Webb, MK, UK=0D
=0D
Quite simply this can/will not work. Protocol Obfuscation and encryption wi=
ll result in ISP's not being able to prove what is being downloaded and wil=
l result in additional load on the network. Thus creating networks so heavi=
ly secured that paedophiles and criminals (please don't use "Terrorists" th=
ey are criminals...double-speak for today's propaganda ) will utilise for t=
heir means and prove impossible for the police to monitor.=0D
Did anyone consult the police on this matter. Or the IT industry for that m=
atter?=0D
At best a few thousand people will be warned/software will be modified and =
the numbers will return to previous levels but with additional, unexpected =
issues. Then we will read once more of the tax payer stumping up for the ne=
xt whizz idea and the cycle repeats.=0D
If you want to beat this you have to talk to the ISP's, the geeks, the IT i=
ndustry, the police, the artist what to do. dont let some junior aid come u=
p with a draft so they can sign off on the next 12 months work=0D
Iain Dobson, edinburgh, uk=0D
=0D
Most people people who work will do three weeks work and get paid for three=
 weeks work. Hollywood does three weeks work and is paid for it over and ov=
er again - they release the same work in cinemas, on video tape, on DVD and=
 it is broadcast numerous times on TV dacade after decade. Further, when a =
new video format is released people will be sold the same product they alre=
ady paid for in the cinema, on video tape and on DVD, yet again.=0D
What is a plastic DVD and cardboard wrapper materially worth? 2 pence? What=
 is data which only exists in the ether and that can be reproduced at zero =
cost millions of times over materially worth? This work once, sell nothing =
many times over is the reson the media industry is associated with fifty be=
droom mansions, limousines and private jets. That sort of unsustainable, pr=
iveliged and greedy business model which produced such ostentatious wealth =
in the past increasingly has to be subsidized in modern times by government=
 oppression of the public.=0D
Darren H., Leeds, UK=0D
=0D
This proposed legislation is fraught with dangers. As everyone knows, the I=
SPs simply provide pipes between clients and servers. Irrespective of legis=
lation, ISPs have about as much right to police what I download and access =
online as the Movie and Recording industries have to tell me who I can date=
.=0D
Implementation of the proposed legislation will have very large unintended =
consequences and should be seen as a very public example of the use of lobb=
ying and political muscle to attempt to protect a old-world business from t=
he realities of modern-world technology.=0D
If adopted, this legislation has very eerie similarities to the prohibition=
s and restrictions on Internet access mandated by the government of China.=
=0D
The Recording and Movie industries should properly be told to "Go to Hell" =
and to figure out their own way to protect their intellectual property with=
out passing the buck to ISPs due to their lack of technical aptitude. It is=
 not proper to rely on government for solutions.=0D
Scott, Durham, NC, USA=0D
=0D
With internet becoming more available through linking computers to mobile p=
hones (at progressively more affordable prices) does the government also in=
tend to make ISPs share their data with the mobile phone companies as well.=
 If so, will mobile phone companies also be required to enforce the interne=
t ban? If so I'm suspecting they probably wouldn't be too pleased about the=
 cost implications of that.=0D
James Prichard=0D
James, Liverpool, Merseyside=0D
=0D
i may not agree with piracy, but this law is absurd, its too extreme. I see=
 my internet as an access to the world. a liberty that i am not easily goin=
g to let them take away. it is equivalent to a threat od taking away my pas=
sport, and no industry, the music industry included should be preferred ove=
r the liberty of civilians. The music industry still makes profits. It is a=
 greedy industry, a industry that sells albums in CD format for =C3=82=C2=
=A310.99 and complain about selling the downloadable form for =C3=82=C2=A38=
.99, eventhough there is no physical CD, with the cost of shipping and prod=
ucing involved! This makes my blood boil that the fears of the industry hav=
ing preferrential treatment over civilians is finally here!! A reasonably p=
riced downloadable format should be available, even Steve jobs said that at=
 79p per single the music industry is making more money per single compared=
 to CD format!=0D
joan, liverpool, uk=0D
=0D
DPI (deep packet inspection) is available now and works at wire speed so it=
 can be done.=0D
However it costs tens of million of pounds to implement efficiently across =
a national network.=0D
Who will be paying for this? Will the record industry pay? Hell no. It will=
 be us, the broadband users with an increase in bills.=0D
All in some failed attempt to drive us to the record store or cinema when i=
n reality we will simply not do it.=0D
This smacks of an industry that doesn't have any idea how to evolve. As som=
eone said, the games industry protected itself with the inclusion of online=
 gaming.=0D
Artists still make millions from touring and concerts - the big issue is th=
e record companies don't.=0D
Distribute music for a nominal fee and provide more live entertainment. You=
 will still be rich beyond our wildest dreams. Radiohead or Arctic Monkeys =
anyone?=0D
Salty, Reading,=0D
=0D
I Download Files illegally, i am a student, i cant afford to buy the expens=
ive DVDs and CDs, the music industry isnt loosing money from people like me=
 because i cannot afford them in the first place, i download them, then wat=
ch them, if i like a film/music cd enough i will go out and buy it.=0D
this is an invasion of my privacy, and i was also under the same impression=
 as someone above, i thought it was only illegal if i share the download or=
 sell it to someone else.=0D
anom, anom, anom=0D
=0D
Speaking as someone looking to spend his life working in the music industry=
 I sincerely hope that this law does NOT come into action. Music is an artf=
orm, not a business, and the extortionate ammount earnt by musicians has do=
ne nothing more than attract paracitic charlatans who have talent for nothi=
ng more than marketing. The industry has made a joke of music, now its musi=
cs turn to make a joke of the industry.=0D
Make music artistic again, true musicians will be content to live off giggi=
ng, dvd & collectables sales and sponsorship... We've let greed ruin everyt=
hing else already.=0D
Vinnie Marsden, Warrington,=0D
=0D
The government seems to think that internet access is dispensable nowadays.=
 Have the legislators (who have probably been bullied by the Media Industry=
) not considered the fact that many people's work and study is dependent on=
 the internet in some form or another, even if only for email access. Many =
also work from home for various reasons - family or care commitments, cutti=
ng down on travel, etc.=0D
Therefore, I would go as far as to say that this measure of cutting off acc=
ess is a violation of human rights. It is far too heavy handed, and is clea=
rly skewed too far in favour of the film and music industries.=0D
Perhaps the Media Industry has not considered that there may well be little=
 to no loss of revenue to them, as many illegal downloaders would not bothe=
r to legally purchase their material even if it were somehow impossible to =
obtain pirate copies. They are looking for all possible means to increase r=
evenues - perhaps as they know that the Writers strike in the US will cost =
them!=0D
Richie, Buckinghamshire, UK=0D
=0D
The UK is predicted to have 21 million broadband lines by 2013 (http://www.=
computing.co.uk/vnunet/news/2203915/uk-plug-21-million-broadband).=0D
With average broadband speeds increasing and the trial of fibreops then you=
 are talking hundreds of billions of packets flying around per second and I=
 would love to see a machine that could possibly analyze that much data per=
 second because it just isn't going to happen unless you had supercomputers=
 at every IEP.=0D
Matt, Aberdeen,=0D
=0D
George Orwell was right after all. It's only a matter of time before the go=
vernment starts bribing our children to inform on us.=0D
Hanna, Sheffield,=0D
=0D
All they'll succeed in doing is stopping the poorer people of this country =
from downloading and watching pirated movies, i'm not condoning piracy in a=
ny way but if you and your family earn the minimum wage, you cannot afford =
to go to the cinema or buy dvds, the film companies will see no rise in pro=
fit from this at all, the police & local councils may see a rise in bored k=
ids hanging round street corners with nothing to do, why can't this kind of=
 money & effort be spent on the kids instead of against them?=0D
Robin, Stoke on Trent, UK.=0D
=0D
This will only make a minor dent in the overall level of "piracy".=0D
What the whole process will do is to benefit the criminals who make large s=
ums of money from selling pirated movies/software. That market appeared to =
be in decline as users used their broadband to download instead of buying t=
he stuff from their "friends" or the chinese gangs.=0D
The industry is simply going about this the wrong way. They need to add val=
ue to the product so it is worth purchasing rather than relying on the sale=
 of basic commodity products. Games companies have done this with providing=
 sophisticated online communities. In the past I might have used a pirated =
game, but now if I really like a game I buy it because it means I will be a=
llowed to play online.=0D
The industry simply is not looking at this as an opportunity to innovate, t=
hey simply want to go back to the old ways. They simply can no longer do th=
at, people will be able to get the stuff at a fraction of the price from cr=
iminals anyway.=0D
AM, Bham, UK=0D
=0D
I'd much rather they invested their effort in stopping Spam mail, but then =
that would be for the benefit of the consumer, so it's not going to happen.=
=0D
MD, London,=0D
=0D
If anything is ever going to wake people up out of their brainwashed sleep =
mentality, of i have nothing to hide.=0D
this is it!=0D
bring on the revolution, revolt!=0D
power to the people!!!=0D
paul mayuw, london,=0D
=0D
This disgusts me, it just another in a long line of steps by the British go=
vernment to further meddle in the lives of its citizens. So we are spied up=
on in our streets and on our roads, and now our free time is under threat. =
What next, will I have to pay a royalty to the studios when I put on a CD o=
r play a DVD when friends come round?=0D
Steve, Sussex,=0D
=0D
When I was young we recorded the top 20 from the BBC on a tape recorder to =
avoid the cost of buying music, but still I bought some music within my bud=
get. There was a big fuss made about illegal copying of records to tape at =
the time, but it was never stopped, because some things you cannot police w=
ithout major intrusions into everyone's privacy. The government would do be=
tter enforcing the current laws before introducing more laws they cannot po=
lice. How about getting the increasing gun crime off our streets.=0D
Allan Weaver, Whitchurch Shropshire, England=0D
=0D
This is appalling- ever wondered how music company execs can afford huge ho=
uses and cars when they don't have an ounce of artistic talent?=0D
Ever heard of the luddites...survival of the fittest?=0D
Adapt or die.=0D
This is business.=0D
What we are seeing is the government effectively planning to prop up a lame=
duck industry. Whose employers have got FILTHY rich off the back of the poo=
r.=0D
Dave, northampton, uk=0D
=0D
"Broadband companies who fail to enforce the =C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C5=93three-str=
ikes=C3=A2=E2=82=AC=C2=9D regime would be prosecuted and suspected customer=
's details could be made available to the courts."=0D
Switch off that PC .... unplug it and heave it out of the window...say no t=
o Big Bro' , say no to spying ISP Providers, a) You will get your life back=
 and b) you can listen to your friends music!=0D
Ian, Ashtead, Surrey=0D
=0D
So out of some 10 million broadband user for the uk, if 1/4 are found downl=
oading or receiving copyrighted material, that is going to be a dent in the=
 profits of the ISP's, google, etc?=0D
Kris, London,=0D
=0D
CD/DVD's are too expensive. Cinema tickets are too expensive. Simple econom=
ics. If these costs are considered too high by the market, the market will =
seek lower cost alternatives until MR=3DMC. However, the question should be=
 why these costs are too high? Whoever made the decision that Mel Gibson or=
 Julia Roberts or whoever else are worth USD 20m for a couple of months "wo=
rk"? These are costs incurred by the studios/music companies and then passe=
d on to the consumer. Until madness such as this stops, pirated vids and il=
lelgal d/l's will continue. The entertainment industries have created the m=
onster which they now seek to contain.=0D
Guy, KL, Malaysia=0D
=0D
Boy can governments jump lively when going to the rescue of business, pity =
they can't move that fast when it comes to defending the consumer.=0D
DanO, Mount Vernon, USA=0D
=0D
Now we see the future: surveillance of our private communications on behalf=
 of big business and with government approval. When did the pursuit of even=
 bigger profits justify direct interference with a basic freedom. It is the=
 industrys problem to deal with the issue with technical innovation. I disp=
ute their figures for loss, I myself have in the past heard illegaly record=
ed music and then bought the album legally and this must be the case many t=
imes over. What were the takings for films like Harry Potter, how much do t=
hey pay the likes of Bruce Willis? Now the law will be applied to support t=
hese poor industries. Our democracy stinks.=0D
mike gee, bournemouth, uk=0D
=0D
The article does not specify how the transfer of copyrighted materials is t=
o be detected - by people visiting The Pirate Bay, using bit torrent softwa=
re, etc, or by an analysis of all traffic on an account, so for instance, s=
omebody emailing you an MP3 would be picked up as a possible violation. As =
internet access becomes more popular via mobile phones will these companies=
 also have the right to refuse you a contract too?=0D
This is what happens when society is moving towards more surveillance of el=
ectronic communications, the private sector is looking to leverage such sur=
veillance technologies for their own ends, in this case, rather than detect=
 terrorists, they will pick up on somebody downloading Pirates of the Carri=
bean III or whatever.=0D
Sharing the info between ISPs will create a "no surf" list.=0D
I am not sure what 'creativity' in Hollywood is being stifled by piracy, th=
at certainly raised a smile.=0D
jason kennedy, La Antigua, guatemala=0D
=0D
The various media companies are working under an economic fallacy. They do =
not lose billions every year. The downloaded material in large part will no=
t be legally purchased if all downloading stops.=0D
In fact all the research suggests they will in fact see a decrease in sales=
 as 'illegal' downloading increase exposure to material that people would o=
therwise not hear/see and which they then buy legal copies of.=0D
Twenty years ago the film industry claimed domestic videoes would kill thei=
r industry. Instead they saved it. Today they claim that illegal downloadin=
g is responsible for all the ills of the music/cd and film/dvd markets. The=
y are just as wrong and in 'safeguarding' their revenue are probably going =
to destroy their own market.=0D
The real problem they have is the extortianate cost of many DVD/CD's where =
they are actually pricing themselves out of their market in a failure to un=
derstand basic economic theory.=0D
David L. Brown, Bedford, UK=0D
=0D
The media industry needs to realize the very quality that makes the pirates=
 so successful: evolution. As has been seen before, when one method of shar=
ing was shut down, others were developed. Instead of trying to stop somethi=
ng that I very much doubt they can, the industry should focus on developing=
 forms & products they _can_ get money for.=0D
Sam, Los angeles,=0D
=0D
OK so now users will turn to encrypted torrent clients and proxy servers ou=
tside the UK (which will be made available given the change to the laws). Y=
ou can't beat the pirates you simply beat them at their own game. I live in=
 Australia (born in the UK). I want the opportunity to pay a fee and access=
 UK TV legally. Until this happens I will dl in the hope that numbers force=
 change. It's the same old story trying to put the genie back in the bottle=
. It's out guys/gals get with the program...=0D
Dave, Sydney, Australia=0D
=0D
ISP providers aren't going to bankrupt themselves by cutting off paying cus=
tomers. Simple as that.=0D
Sean MacDhai, Newcastle-upon-Tyne,=0D
=0D
How can child pornography, prostitiutes for hire, street thugs beating up p=
eople, racist videos and so on be allowed on the internet depsite it's appa=
rently illegal nature but the minute that the poor/middle class majority en=
joy some well earned free music and video downloads then all of sudden it i=
s such an injustice to the billion dollar movie and music industry.=0D
The same industry that happily hands out screener copies of music albums an=
d movies to famous radio djs, music executives and big broadcasters that ob=
vioulsy either go missing at some point or are probably provided to pirate =
mongers at a fee, and I haven't even started on all those illegal copies fr=
om the far east that the same industry seems to have simply ignored because=
 they know that all they have to do is to keep on charging the Westerners i=
nflated rates for the same DVDs, CDs that are cheaply available elsewhere. =
what a load of Toss! This is a case of the big bucks from the media compani=
es influencing Goverment=0D
John Basil, London, London=0D
=0D
I cannot see how this proposal can possibly work: if ISP service contracts =
are broken on the grounds that users "are suspected of wrongly downloading"=
 material, then presumably legal action can be taken by the offended user a=
gainst the ISP. Furthermore, if the government should try to legislate in o=
rder to criminalise a civil offence, first of all I doubt that this will be=
 possible; and if it is achieved, then presumably Brown will be out on his =
ear fairly smartish.=0D
Overall, it looks like a heady mix of stupidity and greed: strange how ever=
ything starts to look the same, these days.=0D
Martin Baldwin-Edwards, Athens, Greece=0D
=0D
Is it actually 'illegal' to download copyrighted material? I was under the =
impression that publishing or making available was unlawful (ie uploading) =
while the phrase 'illegal downloading' was industry spin.=0D
Finally thank you to the Times for making the copyrighted material on this =
website available to me at no charge. Unlike the music business clearly the=
 newspaper industry has some sort of clue.=0D
philip, cambridge,=0D
=0D
CD's and DVD's were massively overpriced for years and in my opinion it's n=
o wonder ppl took to sharing. The fat cat's got rich off kids buying music =
etc. If a dvd is good then ppl still go out and buy it. They'll never stop =
the downloaders tho, there is always a way around stuff. Already there are =
programs out there that conceal IP addresses and the ISP's dont really care=
 what u do as long as they get their monthly payment. I think this is a bat=
tle that can't be won. Freedom of the internet, censored... It's too big an=
d powerful to silence in my opinion=0D
Jack, London,=0D
=0D
why this can't be forced on YouTube violent and hate materials? This unplea=
sant double standards must be exposed.=0D
H.Marph, LONDON,=0D
=0D
Wake me up when they invent hoverboards...=0D
Marty, hill valley,=0D
=0D
Users "suspected" ... face a warning for their first "offence" ... an d fac=
e termination of contract if "caught" a third time.=0D
Can we apply this new legal standard to other areas? How about penalties fo=
r the very same media companies if "suspected" of price-fixing? Three "susp=
ected offences" and the entire board goes to jail?=0D
How about MPs are forced to stand down with loss of all pension perks after=
 being "suspected" of fiddling their expenses for a third time?=0D
Steven Hipkiss, London,=0D
=0D
WHy can't this sort of ban be imposed on paedophiles, people accessing porn=
 sites or those where children are being abused?=0D
Pat, Farnborough, UK=0D
=0D
=0D