[A2k] Japan: YouTube 'should check copyright'

Thu Dec 7 07:23:35 2006

Dear Peter,

Of course, I was not meaning that I find YouTube behaviour satisfactory nor
ethical. The point of my message was to highlight that requiring them by la=
w
to check that uploaded contents are not infringing on copyright is not an
adequate approach to solve this problem.

There are 3 different issues :
1- The a-priori or a-posteriori check of copyright infringement
2- The economic model and remuneration of creators
3- The meaning of should (compulsory by law or ethical)

What I say is that trying to achieve results in 2 by pushing the "a priori"
option for 1, and putting 3 on the legal side leads to disastrous results. =
It
will encourage in practice the "legal" offers such as the recent Universal
Music that have all the bad properties (advertising funded, no true
remuneration or creators) and none of the good (openness to all creators).

If, on the contrary, one has a flat rate licensing such as the one we both
support for music or another funding mutalisaiton scheme more adapted to
video, it will enable users and creators to share contents without having t=
o
shield behing YouTube or another large service provider.

Now this does not mean operators of services should not care about respect =
of
rights. In a service such as Glinkr (a small Web 2.0 service that enable us=
ers
to produce and share graphical maps of Web contents that my company is
operating, www.glinkr.net) we have terms of use that include:
---
You certify that (1) you will make public only maps for which you own the
necessary rights on any content included so as to submit them to the
corresponding license (2) that you will make public only those maps for whi=
ch
giving access to the contents does not violate privacy rights, publicity
rights or author rights of anyone.
---
but also:
---
Sopinspace, as operator of the Glinkr service, denies any responsibility on
the contents of the maps you produce. Sopinspace reserves its rights to
delete any map that does not respect these terms of use or legal obligation=
s,
and cancel service to its creator(s). Sopinspace's monitoring of Glinkr
public maps is at its own discretion, and Sopinspace denies any obligation =
on
checking that the contents included in the maps respect legal obligations o=
r
these terms of use.
---
Please believe me that without the second part, our service would simply be
impossible to operate.

Finally, about checking copyright infringement, in cases against P2P users =
in
France, it appeared that for more than of a 3rd of files involved
the "representatives" of right holders that initiated the cases were unable
to prove that the material was infringing or who owned the copyright it was
supposed to infringe.

Philippe
Le jeudi 7 d=E9cembre 2006 01:18, peter jenner a =E9crit :
> Does this mean that YouTube and other sites can hide behind this law to
> flagrantly and knowingly go along with obvious copyright infringement unt=
il
> someone asks them to stop. Is there no expectation of reasonable care wit=
h
> regards to material, considering that all material is vetted for obscenit=
y
> and libel and is then manipulated by their technology. I wouldn't mind if
> they paid something for the use of the material used, but to pay nothing
> and then use the often infringing material as a device to make enormous
> capital gains and subsequent advertising and other revenues, really makes
> me angry. Peter Jenner
>
> > From: Philippe Aigrain <philippe.aigrain@wanadoo.fr>
> > Organization: Personal
> > Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:01:45 +0100
> > To: a2k@lists.essential.org
> > Subject: Re: [A2k] Japan: YouTube 'should check copyright'
> >
> > I confirm that this practice (obligation of takedown after justified
> > injunctions but no obligation of a priori checks) is also codified in
> > European law, and that the absence of obligation of a-priori checks is
> > widely considered as a necessary condition for the operation of on-line
> > services, in particular those that give their users the ability to crea=
te
> > and make accessible contents.
> >
> > Philippe Aigrain
> >
> > Le mercredi 6 d=E9cembre 2006 10:25, Vint Cerf a =E9crit :
> >> The standard practice in the online industry is called "notice and
> >> takedown" - if someone discovers copyright material that is improperly
> >> posted, and notifies the service provider of this, upon validation, th=
e
> >> material is removed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Vinton G Cerf
> >> Chief Internet Evangelist
> >> Google
> >> Regus Suite 384
> >> 13800 Coppermine Road
> >> Herndon, VA 20171
> >>
> >> +1 703 234-1823
> >> +1 703-234-5822 (f)
> >>
> >> vint@google.com
> >> www.google.com
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:33 AM
> >> To: Michelle Childs
> >> Cc: a2k@lists.essential.org; vinton g. cerf
> >> Subject: Re: [A2k] Japan: YouTube 'should check copyright'
> >>
> >> Michelle and all,
> >>
> >>   Maybe Japanese right holders should forward all these incodencents
> >> directly to Vint Cerf, self appointed "Father of the internet" and
> >> Google's "Internet evangelist" and ask him to intervene?  After all,
> >> Google ownes YouTube now.
> >>
> >>   As a stock holder of Google myself, I find YouTube's lack of
> >> professionalism appalling and not expectable.
> >>
> >> Michelle Childs wrote:
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6209414.stm
> >>>
> >>> YouTube 'should check copyright'
> >>>
> >>> Video website YouTube should proactively check if videos infringe
> >>> copyright, a group representing Japanese rights holders has said.
> >>>
> >>> The Japan Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers
> >>> wants videos checked before they go online.
> >>>
> >>> More than 100m videos are watched each day via YouTube and many are
> >>> posted without necessary permissions.
> >>>
> >>> Last month 30,000 clips were taken down by YouTube at the request of
> >>> the Japanese entertainment group.
> >>>
> >>> YouTube's policy has been to remove clips that infringe copyright
> >>> after it receives complaints.
> >>>
> >>> The current system "is not functioning well due to the [continued]
> >>> large volume of illegal uploads," said the letter, reported the
> >>> Associated Press.
> >>>
> >>> 'Vulnerable'
> >>>
> >>> YouTube is seen by some analysts as vulnerable to legal claims for
> >>> distributing content owned by other media.
> >>>
> >>> The Japanese group has written to YouTube asking for a preliminary
> >>> screening system for video clips and a series of provisional measures=
,
> >>> including posting messages in Japanese about "illegal uploads".
> >>>
> >>> The group also wants uploaders - people who post videos online - to
> >>> have to register their details and face bans if they violate copyrigh=
t.
> >>>
> >>> YouTube, which is owned by Google, has been negotiating with leading
> >>> copyright holders and reached agreement with several firns, letting
> >>> the website post copyrighted music videos and other content in
> >>> exchange for sharing advertising revenue.
> >>>
> >>> The website has licensing deals with CBS and three major recording
> >>> companies: Warner Music, Universal Music Group and Sony BMG Music
> >>> Entertainment.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> A2k mailing list
> >>> A2k@lists.essential.org
> >>> http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey A. Williams
> >> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
> >> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
> >>    Abraham Lincoln
> >>
> >> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is ve=
ry
> >> often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
> >>
> >> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> >> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> >> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> >> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >> Updated 1/26/04
> >> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. di=
v.
> >> of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> >> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
> >> jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com Registered Email addr with the USPS Contact
> >> Number: 214-244-4827
> >
> > Philippe Aigrain (personal message)
> > http://paigrain.publicdebate.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > A2k mailing list
> > A2k@lists.essential.org
> > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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--
Philippe Aigrain
(message personnel)