Drop the politics and stick with FACTUAL issues!

["Bruce Preudhomme" <brucep@pop.kis.net>]

Your generalized political rhetoric is not needed here! Why not deal with
factual issues, specifics issues, and without all your political slamming.
It was this same type of messages from you before which scared off most
people and that has discourage the positive, constructive use of this
list...

I am glad to hear that you say that you contacted your congressional reps on
the banking privacy problem. I hope you follow though on that. If people
knew how credit scoring was done, and how it is being used, they would be
shocked. Right now there is only ONE true credit scoring company used by the
BIG 3 credit Bureaus (as approved by the FTC) -- Fair Issiac. So basically
it is a monopoly. There is no control over the quality, accuracy and even
the legitimacy of the inputs from the lenders and/or the credit bureaus. In
an FTC Public Forum on 7/22 the FTC acknowledged that they have never done
an audit of the credit scoring process done by Fair Issiac for fairness,
bias, and accuracy. Yet this monopoly is allowed to exist. Lenders have no
controls over the quality/accuracy of inputs, and the credit bureaus don't
validate the information. So it is therefore, Garbage In and Garbabe Out,
that decides the fate of millions of peoples home purchases, borrowing, and
even employment is decided by formulas and scores that are not provided to
the consumer, that are unregulated, and done by a monopoly! The story gets
uglier when you see how this information is being used to rate a customer in
good standing as a risky customer simply because they have too many inquires
in their credit report (note, too many is NOT defined), and this occurs even
is the customer is paying on time! The bottom line is that the bank then
raise your interest rates because they deem you to be a risk based on
undisclosed information derived from an under regulated arena, and all
without your consent! Millions of people are being victimized by this tactic
on a daily basis and yet you can not even find out your credit score nor
what it means, and of course the lenders ARE provided all of this
information about YOU that you are not allowed to see or know!

Basically you are considered GUILTY until proven innocent! A consumer is not
provided any of the derrogatory information prior to it being put into your
credit report and once you stumble on the fact that there is some, YOU must
prove your own innocence!

Sincerely,
Bruce Preudhomme, a law abiding, tax paying, American citizen
who believes in the founding principles of this country that declare us
to be INNOCENT until proven guilty, and that guaranty our right to
life,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...
Been vicitimized by a bank? then Visit
http://www.pcpursuits.com/chevy/default.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: noprivacy@essential.org [mailto:noprivacy@essential.org]On Behalf
Of GPeisert
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 11:30 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list NOPRIVACY
Subject: RE: More Privacy Invasion from the Clinton Administration or
not?


Hi Bruce;

  I concur with your concerns about the banking privacy problem, and I've
been very vocal with my congressional representatives about it. I just
don't see what that has to do with continuing attacks on our privacy by the
Clinton administration. This administration has been horrible with respect
to privacy, in almost every area. They are nothing but a bunch of
unprincipled, politically motivated, knee-jerk reaction, poll-driven hacks.
Good god it will be nice to be rid of that despot. Nov 2000 can't get here
fast enough. I just hope he doesn't figure out a way to inflict more damage
on his way out. A surprising number of people suspect he will either start
a really major war or create some catastrophe that will require him to
invoke Marshal Law in order to nullify the election and retain his position
of power. I'm glad you believe in the notion of "certain inalienable
rights"...your president clearly does NOT. And your right to privacy, or
anything else, for that matter, in any form, means nothing to that crook,
except as he can exploit rhetoric about it to retain personal power and
influence.

Best,

  -- Greg P.

P.S. It's off the subject, but the article I have included below (at the
very end) is just GREAT. It really says it all, especially with respect to
ethics and "law abiding citizens"...As a "law abiding citizen" myself, and
a former Air Force officer, I found it especially poignant. Too bad Clinton
even showed up. The despot knows no shame.

PPS. You will find, Bruce, that virtually ALL legislation that robs law
abiding citizens of their rights is "targeted against criminals." That is
the excuse for the incursion. That, and the utilitarian
(cannibalistic/human sacrifice) argument, that the "good of the many"
outweighs the "good (or the rights or the life) of the few." The entire
concept of "rights" is the foundation of the U.S. Constitution and was
constructed to protect individuals from the tyranny of the mob. It is sad
and frightening to watch the steady erosion of those principles. Those who
whine about their "right to privacy" and then support utilitarian claims of
any stripe are simply engaging in the most base hypocrisy, whether they
realize it or not.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: noprivacy@essential.org [mailto:noprivacy@essential.org]On Behalf
> Of Bruce Preudhomme
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 9:58 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list NOPRIVACY
> Subject: RE: More Privacy Invasion from the Clinton Administration or
> not?
>
>
> Yes the list does appear to be up.
>
> I totally disagree with your interpretation of the attached
> "news" article
> as well as your characterization of the current administration...
>
> If you are so concerned about privacy then you should look into the
> information that banks and credit bureaus have on all of us and
> how freely
> they sell it, and share it with others without our consent. The potential
> legislation that you referred to is targetted for use against
> criminals and
> with court orders, BUT the banks and credit bureaus buy and sell
> private and
> personal information against ALL Americans on a daily basis and use it to
> decide whether you are credit worthy, a credit risk, worthy of
> being hired
> and more!
>
> Sincerely,
> Bruce Preudhomme, a law abiding, tax paying, American citizen
> who believes in the founding principles of this country that declare us
> to be INNOCENT until proven guilty, and that guaranty our right to
> life,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...
> Been vicitimized by a bank? then Visit
> http://www.pcpursuits.com/chevy/default.htm
>

***** ARTICLE *****


Subject: Bill Clinton at AF Academy Graduation

 David Bly, Calgary Herald, COLORADO SPRINGS -

The day Bill Clinton came
to the United States Air Force Academy at Colorado Springs, I stood,
cameras in hand, near a wall upon which was engraved the academy's code of
honor:

"We will not lie, steal or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does."

If only the U.S. president would wander past that wall, I thought. A photo
like that could ensure me a comfortable retirement.

Clinton and I were at the academy this month for the graduation of the
Class of 1999, he as commander-in-chief of the U.S. armed forces, and
I as the father of one of the 944 graduates.

As my wife, Janet, is a U.S. citizen, my children have their choice of
citizenship. Our son Brandon, wanting a career in aviation, applied to the
air force academy because there is no comparable opportunity anywhere
in the world. He graduated with a degree in aeronautical engineering, was
commissioned as an air force officer and will begin training as a jet pilot
next spring.

Graduation from any university is an achievement worth celebrating.  At the
USAFA, it's the culmination of four grueling years of study, training and
discipline. Some don't make it for physical, academic or emotional reasons.
A few decide, after two years, they would rather choose another path. Some
are expelled for violating the honor code.

The USAFA rates high academically, but its aim is more than academics -
it strives to develop moral and ethical leadership. As cadets pursue their
degrees of choice, they are being trained to become air force officers.
Integrity and a high standard of conduct are expected.

We were not excited about the presidential visit.  For us, it was an
annoyance.

Brandon's commissioning ceremony had to be moved to 5:45 p.m., because
Clinton wanted to use the building where the commissioning was scheduled.
Later, we had to be in our stadium seats two hours before the graduation,
because of security.

For others, it was an insult. I heard of retired air force officers who
boycottedthe graduation, because they felt Clinton's participation, given
Monica
Lewinsky and other scandals, detracted from the dignity of the event. The
air force academy is a military base, but it is also a popular tourist
spot.
Each day at noon, busloads of tourists arrive to watch 4,000 cadets line up
and
march to lunch in an elaborate parade that leaves the cadets only 15
minutes
to eat.

On the day Clinton came to town, some areas were closed as security was
beefed up. Access was limited to those invited to the graduation.  It would
not have been a safe day to go skulking through the academy's forests with
bird-watching binoculars.

As the stadium filled, helicopters pounded the air overhead.  Entrance was
through metal detectors. Handbags were searched. Snipers in battle dress
patrolled the top tiers of the stadium. Sprinkled throughout the crowd were
secret-service agents, easy to spot because they wore dark suits,
sunglasses
and earpieces. They spoke into their sleeves a lot and scanned the crowds
constantly. There was nothing secret about them.

Clinton's imminent entrance was announced. We stood. And we stood.
Eight minutes later, the president of the United States of America walked
on
to the football field and toward the podium. No explanation was given for
why he kept 30,000 people waiting on their feet in the sun. As he walked
under
the crossed sabres of the honor guard, the applause was restrained and
polite,
but not enthusiastic. Around me, I heard comments about respecting the
office, if not the man.

No one jeered, but no one cheered.

As I watched the newly minted second lieutenants stand to salute their
commander in chief, I wondered how many of them were thinking what I
was thinking: "If Bill Clinton had been a cadet here, he would have been
 kicked out for lying and cheating."

Actually, he probably wouldn't have qualified for admission. To enter the
academy, an applicant must first be nominated by a member of Congress.
This year, 8,800 applied for nomination and 2,148 qualified.  Of those,
1,275 received appointments to the academy. They were chosen on the
basis of such criteria as academics, athletics, citizenship and leadership.
And moral character. If Clinton was aware of the lukewarm reception, he
didn't show it. He cracked his jokes, defended his actions in the Balkans
and took personal credit for saving democracy as we know it.

As he announced he was sending 7,000 more troops to the Balkans, I
heard more muttered comments about sending troops to a foreign country
to distract attention from personal problems at home.  His manner was
smooth, but my American wife was not impressed. "I had hoped he would
honor the graduates for their  achievements," she said, "and acknowledge
what they have been through to get this far. But it was just a political
speech
..
He didn't uplift me or  inspire me as I hoped someone in his position
would."

Perhaps Clinton's advisers suggested he not talk too much about what
the academy stood for. Perhaps they felt it would not be astute to talk
about personal integrity and a high standard of conduct. As a Canadian,
I felt a little awkward amid the unabashed patriotism of the event, but
as a father, could not help being choked up at seeing 2nd Lieut. Bly step
forward, salute smartly and shake hands with the president. Never mind
that this president had besmirched the office  - my son and his comrades
had every reason to stand tall.

The applause became thunderous as the graduates came to attention at
the order of the academy's commanding officer.  Clinton was forgotten
as cadets and their families realized this was the end of a long, hard
journey.  It was an intoxicating moment when the superintendent barked:
"Class of 1999 - dismissed!"

As nearly a thousand white hats were flung into the air, the Thunderbirds,
the U.S. air force's aerobatic team, roared over the stadium in salute.
Youngsters spilled onto the field to collect the hats as souvenirs, and
families and friends milled about. There was much hugging and laughter
and celebrating.

I looked beyond the turmoil. The presidential cavalcade, which had
arrived with much fanfare, was quietly leaving the stadium. Few
noticed.

No one applauded. After all, it wasn't about a president who had lied
and  cheated. It was about 944 young men and women who hadn't.

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"The world is not interested in how many storms you encountered,
 but whether you brought in the ship."           --Anonymous